Greetings astute traveller, this website now exists for historical reasons.

Much has been learned since 2006. I urge you to keep exploring the evolution of information through other websites.

Author Topic: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...  (Read 26512 times)

Offline Matt Emery

  • Administrator
  • Tribal Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • View Profile
    • Caveman Power
Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« on: July 17, 2007, 08:44:37 AM »
Men don't cry.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline cave_girl1702

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 06:14:22 PM »
Yes, if only men cried, and didnt hold back their feelings and turn into utter neurotic maniacs, life would be so much easier. My current partner has never cried since Ive known him and I hate that he wont cry. But, my previous partner cried a lot and I hated him for it. Dont really know how to end this post now.

I started writing thinking that men SHOULD cry, and then thinking about it, I dont really want to see their tears, unless something dramatic should happen. But, is there a happy medium? It is expected that women will cry, but looked down upon for men to. How very unfair.

Its interesting how posting a comment can sometimes change your view on things and put you in touch with how you really feel about a topic.

Offline Foxy

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2007, 09:20:45 PM »
Yes, if only men cried, and didn't hold back their feelings and turn into utter neurotic maniacs, life would be so much easier. My current partner has never cried since Ive known him and I hate that he wont cry. But, my previous partner cried a lot and I hated him for it. Don't really know how to end this post now.

I started writing thinking that men SHOULD cry, and then thinking about it, I don't really want to see their tears, unless something dramatic should happen. But, is there a happy medium? It is expected that women will cry, but looked down upon for men to. How very unfair.

Its interesting how posting a comment can sometimes change your view on things and put you in touch with how you really feel about a topic.


Ah the social stigmas of a man that shows his emotions.
Why don't you want to see mens tears? is it because emotions are perceived to be a sign of weakness?
Men are emotionally weaker than women, it's a fact. Whilst the man is the physical protector in a relationship it's the woman who is the emotional protector.
It's rather contrary to what most people think, a man who has the sensitivity of a steel pipe is thought of to have great emotional strength because he rarely falters and lets little affect him, however this is normally a front to how he truly feels. Given the opportunity the same Mr. Granite will break down like a baby and weep his eyes out if he's sure he wont be judged for it. And that's the problem with modern society, prejudice.
Men who show their emotions are often judged as weak, frail and pathetic. This is why men discourage it in themselves and why fathers discourage it in their sons. Men don't want to be labled with being weak and by shutting out all emotions, they think they portray strength. Yet human beings can't just 'keep things bottled up', we need an outlet. Women are encouraged to express their emotions at a very early age and have this outlet readily available to them, they visit friends and talk things over, they 'nag' their husbands when they get home, they call relatives and have lengthy conversations.
Men on the other hand do not have any such means and end up becoming very neurotic in the process. This leads onto a range mental issues. Male suicide rates are on average about three to four times higher than that of females in Australia (off the top of my head, I'll change it if I'm incorrect). Men also turn to other outlets such as violence and substance abuse deal with their struggles. And most men have something they obsess over in their lives whether it be work, sport, hobbies, even family.

Edit: I have attached a graph showing suicide trends from 1993-2003, I took this from the Australian Bureau of Statistics . This clearly show the state of male emotional health, keep in mind that those are the textbook suicides. Factor in all the individuals killing themselves with other substances such as alcohol and all the damage a substance abuse problem can do to people associated with an individual and it's easy to see that this is a real epidemic.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 09:27:39 PM by Foxy »
While there's no 'I' in 'team'. There's 'me' in 'good times'.

Offline cave_girl1702

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2007, 11:30:28 PM »
Wow, how interesting that graph is. I definately see that there is a hell of a lot more males on record for committing suicide... I also see that the mens and womens rates tend to peak at the same ages.

Offline Matt Emery

  • Administrator
  • Tribal Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • View Profile
    • Caveman Power
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2007, 01:59:39 AM »
Yes, if only men cried, and didnt hold back their feelings and turn into utter neurotic maniacs, life would be so much easier.

Watching a documentary on the Tribes of the Papua New Guineas Highlands, I was awed by their customs at funerals.  The men (and women) would sing and dance all afternoon - their mourning was loud and energetic.  The corpse was placed on an altar, dressed in tribal garb, and adorned in symbolic jewellery.  I believe neurosis and suicide is virtually non-existent in these tribes...

Conversely, in modern western society we are generally quiet and dignified at funerals, death is a dirty word - we hide the corpse from public viewing and sanitise the ritual - we go to extraordinary lengths to desensitise the experience for attendees.

God damn it I want to cry at a funeral like the tribesman, I want to dance in grief, and howl with pain!

But, unfortunately, such things are considered outside the acceptable boundaries of emoting grief... so it's "hello Neurosis, here I come".

Men who show their emotions are often judged as weak, frail and pathetic.

Exactly. And the irony is pitiful, considering how tough and brave the Tribesmen of the Papua New Guineas Highlands are.

The graph Foxy posted shows alarming (and sad) suicide rates for you those in their late teens.  What also strikes me as sad is the fact that these teens are repressed beyond belief.  At that age they are actually young warriors and hunters - yet we (modern society) castrate them mentally and emotionally with our cultural restrictions.

These boys and girls need to actualise their instincts, but instead they are socialised to very unnatural rules.  And come to think of it... so am I!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 02:12:20 AM by Matt Emery »
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Madison

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2007, 06:45:14 PM »
Hi guys, I haven't yet posted anything so I thought I'd start here.. It is a very touchy subject for men and also a very sad one..
Unfortunately, this way of thinking has been passed down through innumerable generations and its something thats so ingrained in men that its probably going to take countless future generations before men in general can feel safe and free to let their emotions out.. I also agree with Foxy re the suicide rate amongst young men. It's a critical problem especially in country areas..
Also, the various relationships I've been in have been with men that had experienced a lot of abuse throughout their childhood and in turn (as Foxy also mentioned) it eventually manifested into extreme anger, addiction and violence.. To stand on the sidelines (i say 'on the sidelines' because I couldn't do anything) and experience it all was extremely hard and although I had to deal with my own conflicting emotions towards them, I could still see deep down that they were hurting as much as I was. I just wish they could have felt safe enough to talk to somebody re their issues..
Anyway, I've now had a well deserved break from it all. It's been great to have the time to find out a bit more about myself. I just wish a lot more men out there could gather up the courage to help themselves through others if their finding it too hard on their own..
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 11:15:13 PM by Madison »
Fear. Courage. Freedom

Offline viking

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 01:09:44 PM »
Do we need to cry?  Not necessarily.  I don't equate mental/emotional health with crying.  Grieving, sure. I agree that grieving has been eliminated socially - widows used to spend weeks or months wearing black, and just grieving for a husband. 
Do I cry?  very rarely, usually in private, during times of deep contemplation or prayer.  Am I stable?  Yep.
Will my kids (when I have em) ever see me cry?  Only during grief.  otherwise, crying (breaking down) is an indicator of emotional instability, and demonstrates weakness in a leader. 

Offline Matt Emery

  • Administrator
  • Tribal Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • View Profile
    • Caveman Power
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2007, 01:07:48 AM »
Do we need to cry?  Not necessarily.  I don't equate mental/emotional health with crying.  Grieving, sure. I agree that grieving has been eliminated socially - widows used to spend weeks or months wearing black, and just grieving for a husband. 
Do I cry?  very rarely, usually in private, during times of deep contemplation or prayer.  Am I stable?  Yep.
Will my kids (when I have em) ever see me cry?  Only during grief.  otherwise, crying (breaking down) is an indicator of emotional instability, and demonstrates weakness in a leader. 

Interesting, I can see the benefits of refraining from crying in front of others in specific scenarios, such as the one you've mentioned.  It makes sociological sense too, particularly in tribal or family situations.  You've raised an excellent point.

I do however, assert that crying is indeed a need that is related to mental health.  Specifically, it's the repression of crying that is the problem.  I don't assert that we need to cry as some sort of regulatory function, but rather, as a situational reaction.  The systematic repression of crying leads to neurosis i.e. a mental imbalance that causes distress.

I also think that the repression of crying is indicative of a larger phenomena occurring in our post industrial revolution societies; the emasculation of males.  ...but that is another topic.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Foxy

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2007, 05:25:25 AM »
Do we need to cry?  Not necessarily.  I don't equate mental/emotional health with crying.  Grieving, sure. I agree that grieving has been eliminated socially - widows used to spend weeks or months wearing black, and just grieving for a husband. 
Do I cry?  very rarely, usually in private, during times of deep contemplation or prayer.  Am I stable?  Yep.
Will my kids (when I have em) ever see me cry?  Only during grief.  otherwise, crying (breaking down) is an indicator of emotional instability, and demonstrates weakness in a leader. 

Interesting, I can see the benefits of refraining from crying in front of others in specific scenarios, such as the one you've mentioned.  It makes sociological sense too, particularly in tribal or family situations.  You've raised an excellent point.

I do however, assert that crying is indeed a need that is related to mental health.  Specifically, it's the repression of crying that is the problem.  I don't assert that we need to cry as some sort of regulatory function, but rather, as a situational reaction.  The systematic repression of crying leads to neurosis i.e. a mental imbalance that causes distress.

I also think that the repression of crying is indicative of a larger phenomena occurring in our post industrial revolution societies; the emasculation of males.  ...but that is another topic.

I tend to agree with both of you.
I too believe that crying isn't nessecary if an individual has other means of coping that will not affect them in an adverse manner (e.g. confiding in friends and family). Viking, you might not cry simply because you don't need to. You may have other devices there to help you out in dire situations.
What I am saying is that the supression of these crutches or the practice of activities which are detrimental (such as the bottle) in times of need is becoming an increasing problem in todays society.Most men are simply unable to deal and cope with allot of the stress put upon them. If an individual's only way of coping with hardship is to bawl his eyes out, I say we should let him, and I also reckon he shouldnt be stigmatised for it. If another individual doesn't need to go to such emotional measures, then good for him.
To reiterate and reinforce Matt's point, Crying is neccessary when an individual has no other way of coping.
While there's no 'I' in 'team'. There's 'me' in 'good times'.

Offline Phanatic

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 09:49:56 PM »
I also think that the repression of crying is indicative of a larger phenomena occurring in our post industrial revolution societies; the emasculation of males.  ...but that is another topic.

Indeed. These days males are afraid to exert their masculinity, because it's not politically correct.

Offline Matt Emery

  • Administrator
  • Tribal Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • View Profile
    • Caveman Power
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 11:25:56 PM »
I also think that the repression of crying is indicative of a larger phenomena occurring in our post industrial revolution societies; the emasculation of males.  ...but that is another topic.

Indeed. These days males are afraid to exert their masculinity, because it's not politically correct.

Our social constructs, which were designed as a safety net, have evolved to become a cage.
"Be true to your biology"

Devin McAfee

  • Guest
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2008, 01:19:00 AM »
Do we need to cry?  Not necessarily.  I don't equate mental/emotional health with crying.  Grieving, sure. I agree that grieving has been eliminated socially - widows used to spend weeks or months wearing black, and just grieving for a husband. 
Do I cry?  very rarely, usually in private, during times of deep contemplation or prayer.  Am I stable?  Yep.
Will my kids (when I have em) ever see me cry?  Only during grief.  otherwise, crying (breaking down) is an indicator of emotional instability, and demonstrates weakness in a leader. 

I could not agree any more. The alpha male of the pack does not cry. I am the exact same way in which I rarely cry, only "during times of deep contemplation or prayer" but I am still a very mentally stable person. It is only the culture that has affected us, quite frankly I do not think that the reason why the suicide rates are so high is because men cannot cry. I believe it is because of the increased social pressure to go out and get a job, do well in school, and so on and so forth. The tribesmen of New Guinea likely do not suffer from such a large array of complex expectations, which would explain the lower suicide rate.

Offline Matt Emery

  • Administrator
  • Tribal Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • View Profile
    • Caveman Power
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 07:20:05 PM »
I believe it is because of the increased social pressure to go out and get a job, do well in school, and so on and so forth. The tribesmen of New Guinea likely do not suffer from such a large array of complex expectations, which would explain the lower suicide rate.

Good insight.  I'd have to agree 100%.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Kate

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2010, 01:46:12 PM »
Sorry for posting late here, but I just want to mention that the same is true for women, only in a different way...
First of all, I agree, men are discouraged from crying; which is so unhealthy in my view, since crying puts a person in touch with his humanity and provides the body with a powerful psychosomatic/mental relief.  We came out of the womb crying, and continued to cry even after we learned how to speak.  Not to cry out of joy or pain for months or even years (!) at a time, I would think, is definitely a result of mental repression.  (Although in the current world we live in, I can see how this repression is often necessary for mental survival.)

And a lot of women may say they don't like to see a man cry, and neither do I...but why would I?  I also don't like to see a child or a woman cry.  At stated, it is repressed in our culture, associated with negative connotations such as "weakness" and "frailty," and so it makes everyone uncomfortable.  Let alone "howling" in pain at a funeral--that sounds so healthy!--I do wish I heard that.

But what about women?  Not in terms of crying, but in terms of accessing their deep, true feelings?  I know so many women who are neurotic, and I'm sure it because of a similar type of repression.  Whenever women DO express their emotions, it comes out totally skewed (like yelling at a boyfriend out of nowhere) or viewed as taboo (i.e.  "she was freaking out," "acting psycho," etc.)  I don't think people, and especially women, are given any cultural tools to appropriately access this part of themselves. 
   
And while it makes us neurotic, I also think it cuts us off from a great, great source of power. 

Offline Camptravis

  • Cub
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 07:08:10 PM »
But what about women?  Not in terms of crying, but in terms of accessing their deep, true feelings?  I know so many women who are neurotic, and I'm sure it because of a similar type of repression. 

I think women have just as much social pressure, if not more, than men do. Not only are they expected to raise the children, which is perfectly acceptable since that's what women primarily evolved to do, but also many women are expected to have careers.  I think many women are overwhelmed trying to balance work and raising kids and this causes them to be neurotic.  Feminism have gone from "women should have the same rights as men" to "women have to do everything that men do/ women and men are EXACTLY the same". 

What is everyone elses opinions on feminism?

Offline MrWinchell

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2010, 09:09:37 PM »
I do not cry in response to physical pain but a few tears may appear from holding in a scream. I do not consider this crying. I consider crying to be a purely emotional release. As in tears of joy or tears of sadness. There are many reasons to cry but I do not think men should cry over every reason. There are times when it is weak for a man to cry and there are times when it takes a strong man to cry. I think tears of self pity are weak but tears for death are strong. In the end the appropriate time to cry is for each man to decide himself.

I am not sure why but when I hold back tears of sadness my throat hurts. It feels like my laryngeal prominence (Adam's Apple) is the size of a soft ball.
"Those who give up freedom for security, deserve neither"--Ben Franklin

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius

He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man. -- Samuel Johnson

Offline MrWinchell

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2010, 09:12:07 PM »
Quote
 I think women have just as much social pressure, if not more, than men do.  


I do not think women undergo the same pressure as men during adolescence. Boys are constantly shunned for emotional displays by adult men while girls are more likely to be encouraged by adult women in there expression.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 09:32:45 PM by MrWinchell »
"Those who give up freedom for security, deserve neither"--Ben Franklin

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius

He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man. -- Samuel Johnson

Offline aka_s2h

  • Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 02:57:06 AM »
I have a natural in-built instinct that even when I decide it is okay for me to cry because I feel like I need to. I cant.
I have cried at funerals so I can cry but I was so overwhelmed with grief I went into meltdown

Offline Alex Good

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 09:26:12 PM »
 Whenever I don`t repress my emotions people get hurt. I push down hate and fake love, and it keeps me from killing my family.

Offline SidheDraoi

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
  • Karma: +27/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2011, 06:00:59 PM »
Whenever I don`t repress my emotions people get hurt. I push down hate and fake love, and it keeps me from killing my family.

thats a very unsettling thought Alex.  :-\
"In War, Victory. in Peace, Vigilance. in Death, Sacrifice"

"When you take civilization away from man you don't have man without civilization, you have an entirely different animal" -Simon Clark's "Blood Crazy"


"Time is the king of men, he's both their parent, and he is their
     grave, and he gives them what he will, not what they crave."
     Pericles, Act II. sc.3. William Shakespeare

 
"We know what we are, but know not what we may be."  Hamlet,
     Act IV. Sc. 5. William Shakespeare

Offline Alex Good

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 08:39:38 PM »
 In my defense my family is like the roman senate - except in that house everyone's a Brutus.

Offline SidheDraoi

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
  • Karma: +27/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 11:17:28 AM »
In my defense my family is like the roman senate - except in that house everyone's a Brutus.

then thats not a family, that is a gladiator ring...
"In War, Victory. in Peace, Vigilance. in Death, Sacrifice"

"When you take civilization away from man you don't have man without civilization, you have an entirely different animal" -Simon Clark's "Blood Crazy"


"Time is the king of men, he's both their parent, and he is their
     grave, and he gives them what he will, not what they crave."
     Pericles, Act II. sc.3. William Shakespeare

 
"We know what we are, but know not what we may be."  Hamlet,
     Act IV. Sc. 5. William Shakespeare

Offline Alex Good

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 03:14:25 PM »
 Well I did get stabbed once... Luckily it hit a rib, or I'd be dead. The really annoying part was having to walk home in the middle of winter in a hospital shirt and sandals.

Offline SidheDraoi

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
  • Karma: +27/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2011, 09:18:17 PM »
Not a group I would like to be around thats for sure... whole stabby thing, uh-uh this cavewoman will gladly take a rain check for that.
"In War, Victory. in Peace, Vigilance. in Death, Sacrifice"

"When you take civilization away from man you don't have man without civilization, you have an entirely different animal" -Simon Clark's "Blood Crazy"


"Time is the king of men, he's both their parent, and he is their
     grave, and he gives them what he will, not what they crave."
     Pericles, Act II. sc.3. William Shakespeare

 
"We know what we are, but know not what we may be."  Hamlet,
     Act IV. Sc. 5. William Shakespeare

Offline Alex Good

  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Modern man is neurotic, and here's why...
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 09:57:25 AM »
 On the other hand, it keeps you on your toes. I've moved out now though, and I think I'm losing my edge.