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Author Topic: One more reason why tobacco is bad for you, that you might not have known  (Read 16221 times)

Offline Phanatic

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Found this a while back and thought some people might be interested in it.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_health2.shtml
This especially ticks me off, because my dad has been a 2-packs-a-day man for decades, never bothering to take his smoking outside. Thanks for the unnatural elements that won't come out for years, dad....
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 03:10:53 PM by Phanatic »

Offline Renee

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Was that artical written by a dope smoker??? if it was written by a tobacco smoker it would have been the total opposite.
they blame each other...
my parents smoked inside when i was a kid but i don`t hold it against them......GET OVER IT!

Offline Matt Emery

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my parents smoked inside when i was a kid but i don`t hold it against them......GET OVER IT!

Renee, I think it's unfair to tell him to get over it.  He has every right to be upset about it.

Although I do agree that the article was quite biased.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Phanatic

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"According to U.S. Surgeon General C. Everette
Koop (on national television, 1990) radioactivity, not tar,
accounts for at least 90% of all smoking related lung cancer.  "

Hmm. Maybe it is biased, but if you take anything from the article let it be that. Also Renee there is no reason for someone not to take it outside.

Offline Renee

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i agree that smoking should be an outside thing, but it wasn`t spoken about back then as to what it is today. i  appologise for telling you to get over it.

Offline Matt Emery

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...it wasn`t spoken about back then as to what it is today.

That is true.

"Be true to your biology"

Offline Phanatic

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Well during the 90s it was pretty commonplace to "take it outside" because everyone knew it was bad for you.

Offline Matt Emery

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Well during the 90s it was pretty commonplace to "take it outside" because everyone knew it was bad for you.

True.

I was in hospitable in 1986, and I was allowed to smoke in bed whenever I wanted - and I shared a a room with seven other people!
Then in the 90's everything changed.  It's amazing how times have changed.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Renee

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was it only places places of business that took the smoking outside? Bet the parents didn`t.... Some parent would have had the attitude of "it`s my house i will do what i want"   

Offline Phanatic

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Nope, just in houses. There was an advertising campaign encoruaging parents to take the ciggies outside, because secondhand smoke can hurt your children. I think smoking in bars etc was tolerated, in restaurants they had smoking areas. Where my dad worked he'd always go outside to have a smoke, and I'm guessing it wasn't by choice.

Offline Renee

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but didnt u say that ur dad smoked inside the house??????

Offline Phanatic

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Yeah, because there weren't any laws about smoking in your house. Just smoking at the workplace.

Offline Seeker

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If it wasn't for the billions of dollars in taxes each year it would have been banned already. Thankfully it's losing it's foothold and not only is smoking not cool any more, it's actually very uncool. I see people everywhere looking in disgust at smokers and I see a lot more smokers sitting in solitude 5 meters from the shopping centre doors with a half-shamed look on their faces and to be truthful I love it. What gives anybody the right to poison me directly with their personal choices? I give it 20 years at most and it will be completely outlawed and no smoking type products will be sold (legally). Fingers crossed anyway.

Offline Madison

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I don't want to ruffle any feathers here Seeker as I understand where you're coming from. I just think some of your comments were a bit harsh as lot of us have different lifestyles that contribute to our weaknesses be it addiction to smoking or some other substance.

Unfortunately, some of us do succumb much easier to addiction than others due to our genetic makeup or some of us simply end up not caring enough about ourselves or our future. Its destructive and sad to see but I don't think all smokers out there are smoking out of ignorance. They've simply given up on themselves and don't care of the consequences of their actions that they've chosen to put upon themselves.

On the other hand, I'm certainly not saying that you or anyone else should be in any way subjected to it at all. I'm more of the mind that everybody deals with things differently be it addiction to calm themselves (not to say thats right) or some other form thats less detrimental to their health.
Fear. Courage. Freedom

Offline Seeker

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I don't want to ruffle any feathers here Seeker as I understand where you're coming from. I just think some of your comments were a bit harsh as lot of us have different lifestyles that contribute to our weaknesses be it addiction to smoking or some other substance.

No feathers ruffled Madison.  :) I can sometimes deliver my opinion a bit forcefully and it's common fact people do get bent out of shape when they are told they are wrong directly like that. I'll try to be a bit more tactful, although it's not my strong suit.  ;D

Quote from: Madison
Unfortunately, some of us do succumb much easier to addiction than others due to our genetic makeup or some of us simply end up not caring enough about ourselves or our future. Its destructive and sad to see but I don't think all smokers out there are smoking out of ignorance. They've simply given up on themselves and don't care of the consequences of their actions that they've chosen to put upon themselves.

Regardless of what science likes to dribble, I do not and never will accept genetics as an excuse for bad behaviour and choices. People like to jump on genetics as the latest excuse in a long list of excuses for being unable to do something. I think the way we are raised has a much more profound impact on these things, and that is something that should be looked at closely. Regarding the self esteem issues of many people, I feel that is indeed an area for concern and they do definitely need help to overcome the issues holding them back in their lives. But they need true help, something that will break through the issues and actually deal with them so they can move on. Too often the "help" merely masks over the cause by treating the symptoms, hence the drug co's stranglehold on the health industry. This kind of treatment is pointless as the underlying issue(s) are still there and continue to come up throughout their entire lives. We really have to change how we as a society treat psychological issues.

I also HATE, let me say that again, HATE, how the media and society as a whole perpetuate being a victim as a good thing. You simply have to turn on a news or current affair program to see someone crying about something. Victims sell just as well as sex and the worse their plight the better. Please don't mistake this as me hating people who have problems. We all have problems and they do hurt and are hard to deal with. I understand that and I've been there myself many times. But what I hate is how instead of encouraging growth and overcoming of these things, society and the media prop the victim up and encourage them to stay a victim. It's much easier to feel good about yourself for feeling sorry for a victim then it is to help that victim overcome the cause of the problem. They know this, and they sell it to us for profit and ratings.

Quote from: Madison
On the other hand, I'm certainly not saying that you or anyone else should be in any way subjected to it at all. I'm more of the mind that everybody deals with things differently be it addiction to calm themselves (not to say thats right) or some other form thats less detrimental to their health.

I think all addiction is a dangerous thing (true addiction that is). Smoking is one of the worse simply because of it's ability to affect everyone around you, having one or two beers won't usually cause bad effects to yourself or anyone around you, but a single cigarette 20 meters away and I can smell it. If I can smell it I'm breathing it. I believe we should have compassion for our fellow humans and I completely understand that addiction is a very hard thing to break, being trapped in one myself for over 2 years. However, I feel that too many people pass the buck these days. It seems to never be their own fault for anything that happens to them. If we are to believe what people say and do in general, then we are all adult sized children who can't help but do bad since we have no self control or will power and it's always someone else's fault that we did it anyway. To me that's a pathetic way to live and a total cop out. Sympathy for being a victim is more appealing for a lot of people then overcoming something, it's always much easier to just keep on doing the same rather then try to instigate true personal growth and change. Some good old fashioned personal responsibility wouldn't go astray.

Offline Matt Emery

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Quote
Regardless of what science likes to dribble...
Quote
I also HATE, let me say that again, HATE...

Those statements undermine what was otherwise, a pretty solid argument.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Tony Bondioli

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Those statements undermine what was otherwise, a pretty solid argument.

I agree with Matt.  Modern science is, by no means, infallible.  Yet, at its heart, the scientific method is still the best way humans have for gaining a true understanding and incontrovertible knowledge of the physical universe of which we are a part.  Of course, personal biases can and do find their way into the reporting of scientific findings, but I feel your comment, Seeker, was founded more on a religious bias against science in general, and less on your own scientific findings that refute those of others.  I only assume this based on a religiousity you have alluded to in other posts.

As for your use of the word "hate," I suppose it's just a matter of semantics and personal preferences regarding self-expression.  Personally, it's a word I reserve for only the most loathesome beings and dire circumstances I've the misfortune of encountering along my life's path.
RN, B.Sc. Health Promotion and Wellness. Public Health Nurse serving a Great Lakes Native American tribe. Husband and father. Lousy at cards, but with a fair singing voice. Good to have around when the excrement hits the rotating cooling apparatus.

"I worshipped dead men for their strength, forgetting I was strong."  (Vita Sackville-West)

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"Seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek the things they sought."  (Basho)

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Offline Phanatic

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I do not and never will accept genetics as an excuse for bad behaviour and choices. People like to jump on genetics as the latest excuse in a long list of excuses for being unable to do something. I think the way we are raised has a much more profound impact on these things, and that is something that should be looked at closely. Regarding the self esteem issues of many people, I feel that is indeed an area for concern and they do definitely need help to overcome the issues holding them back in their lives. But they need true help, something that will break through the issues and actually deal with them so they can move on. Too often the "help" merely masks over the cause by treating the symptoms, hence the drug co's stranglehold on the health industry. This kind of treatment is pointless as the underlying issue(s) are still there and continue to come up throughout their entire lives. We really have to change how we as a society treat psychological issues.

With you on this one buddy. People use age, genetics, whatever they can as a defense mechanism to exempt themselves from personal responsiblity. "Oh, I can't lose weight, I've got an endomorph build, it's just in my genetics" Well people 100 years ago weren't obese, genetics haven't changed much in 2 or 3 generations. "I can't exercise, I'm too old". My personal favourite: "I've got an addictive personality." Hahaha. Sorry, but that's a scientific way of saying "I have no willpower".
As a free man (or woman) you ought to take responsiblity for your actions. This all said, we live in the type of society that makes it perfectly okay to be average, and even provides us the excuses.

Offline Matt Emery

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That's ridiculous, genes have been mutating since the dawn of evolution - causing many physical anomalies in hominids, such as; extraordinary tallness and shortness, big noses, red hair, etc.   It's not a stretch to say that genetic mutation can effect other characteristics such as the storage and metabolism of food.

I get that victims are repulsive - i'm not trying to change anyone's mind on that.  However, disregarding rational enquiry into physical anomalies because of pre-held prejudices begets a straw man argument - where only ignorance can prevail.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Phanatic

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Fair comment. It's just that according to scientists our genes are almost exactly the same as hunter gatherer genes, and that obesity as an epidemic, is a new thing. Even when my parents were going to school, in the 50s, there were almost no people who were even overweight. It is modern foods, eating and lifestyle habits that make people obese.

Offline Matt Emery

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...obesity as an epidemic, is a new thing. Even when my parents were going to school, in the 50s, there were almost no people who were even overweight. It is modern foods, eating and lifestyle habits that make people obese.

I certainly agree with that statement.
"Be true to your biology"

Offline Seeker

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You misconstrued my hatred of the media using victims for ratings as something to do with science. For the most part I do find science useful and accurate but I am not so naive as to think it gets it right all of the time. As for my religious beliefs, leave them well alone as I did not draw on them for this at all.

My argument is still sound, regardless of the phrasings you didn't like. I'm sorry if it rubs some of you the wrong way, but I will never accept excuses for shirking personal responsibility. 99% of people are the way they are because they choose to be like that.  And I'm not talking base physical traits, I'm talking things that you can change if you want to. I'm a little surprised some of you want to defend them so much. Being lazy is too easy hence why most people choose the path of mediocrity.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 12:58:08 AM by Seeker »

Offline Madison

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I do not and never will accept genetics as an excuse for bad behaviour and choices. People like to jump on genetics as the latest excuse in a long list of excuses for being unable to do something.

Once again I understand what your trying to say here Seeker but behaviour and choices are not as clear cut as many seem to think. I have this argument with my mother constantly, she's always saying "Why cant people just think or act like me" (as she's always on her moral high-ground) and my never-ending response is simply put "We are all not the same, therefore how can we all rise above a difficult and stressful period (no matter the severity) in our lives without it ever developing into something more serious?"

To me some find it easier to rise above their downfalls than others so why is that?.. I'm certainly no expert but yet again I'm going to come from my own experiences and by also being around a lot of others who have shared similar backgrounds to myself over the years.
So personally, I'd have to put the start of addictions down to a multitude of things, the most common being constant abuse, serious mental illness, depression etc. etc. Now if this is combined with somebody who has a predisposition to certain outside factors (substance abuse) or dare I say an addictive personality then you've got a time bomb just waiting and ticking. Its also impossible to say to everybody at any time "go and get help for yourself and you'll be fine after a while" as there's a percentage out there who just don't believe that will happen and therefore give up. Hence, an addiction forms.

Quote
If we are to believe what people say and do in general, then we are all adult sized children who can't help but do bad since we have no self control or will power and it's always someone else's fault that we did it anyway. To me that's a pathetic way to live and a total cop out. Sympathy for being a victim is more appealing for a lot of people then overcoming something, it's always much easier to just keep on doing the same rather then try to instigate true personal growth and change. Some good old fashioned personal responsibility wouldn't go astray.

In saying what I've said here I'm not trying to make excuses for people to numb themselves and go down the 'easy' path just for the hell of it. There's no real excuse for a lot of the behaviour out there but there should almost always be an understanding as to why certain problems arise, not sympathy but an understanding of things. It would go a lot further than anything else.

Fear. Courage. Freedom

Offline Matt Emery

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Madison, i've split your post into a new thread.  It's a great question and deserves it's own thread :)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 06:59:02 PM by Matt Emery »
"Be true to your biology"