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Messages - Toby

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Again, I have to remind everyone that we are talking about "science" here, not consensus or opinion about what constitutes a medical illness.  Opinion, as we know, has no place in pure science.

The logic goes as follows:

Because you cannot prove the existence of any kind of pathogen, lesion or tumor as the basis of an unwanted mental condition, you cannot claim it is a "medical illness."  Therefore because all psychiatric disorders are arrived at by consensus rather than concrete medical test and tabulation (and yes, psychiatrists do form committees and vote mental illnesses into the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual), they also cannot properly be called "medical diseases."

Fifty years of pharmaceutical PR has led a lot of people into believing that certain unwanted conditions are "diseases," when they most certainly cannot fit the proper definition.

No one is arguing that depression, rage, mood swings and so on are not unwanted psychological problems, especially when chronic.

However, to then make the leap and say that these are "diseases" that can be treated with a "medicine" is untenable. 

On top of this, the "medicine" prescribed is never claimed to cure, only "manage" these problems -- and it comes with severe short-term side effects for some, and because it is systemic (or, go to all parts of your body -- your liver, heart, etc.) it comes with very severe long-term side effects for everyone.

Nor am I disputing that anyone here didn't feel better after taking a psychotropic drug.  But don't lose sight of the fact that you are taking a mind-altering drug.  Anyone would feel better after drinking a cocktail or snorting cocaine, but I wouldn't call it "medication"!

I love the Caveman philosophy as I've seen on this website, but on this antidepressant issue everyone should check their emotions at the door and take a long hard look at the logic from a purely scientific point of view, rather than believe the age-old propaganda that we all have heard for years and years throughout the media that comes, in fact, from those parties benefiting from selling psychotopic drugs. 

I have been around too many people not to know that these drugs are very dangerous.

With all due respect, Matt, we'll have to agree to disagree here.

There is no psychiatric "disorder" that has been shown to be a neurological illness (such as a lesion or brain tumor).  Nor is there any brain scan, blood test or X-ray that can show the existence of a mental problem.  From this, one must conclude that the problem is not medical in nature and thus will not be cured by a medicine.

In other words, neurology depends upon provable illnesses that can be measured and tested for. If it cannot be found by lab test, then it isn't a disease.  In psychiatry, anything can be called a "disorder" and treated -- nowadays almost exclusively with drugs.

That being said, your point about suicidal people being "saved" by a psychiatric drug may or may not be true.  Everyone reacts differently to psychiatric drugs.  According to the drug companies' own literature, antidepressants double the rate of suicidality -- Paxil by 6.7 times.  And yet a recent meta analysis by Dr. Irving Kirsch in England of all drug studies (published and unpublished) shows that the positive effects of psychiatric drugs are statistically no greater than placebo. 

So basically, almost all of the positive result of psych drugs is the placebo effect -- and these drugs come with severe short and long-term side effects.

However, Matt, you are quite right.  Psychiatric drugs are legal in this country, and as an informed adult, you have a right to take them.  But know what you are getting into.

Do exhaust all possible options before taking them.  At best, they are a Band-Aid. At worst.. well, you know...

This has been an interesting and very civil thread.  Thank you.


DO NOT TAKE PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS.  They only mask symptoms and do not cure anything.  Side effects are horrendous, and even if you initially "feel better," the long-term effects of these drugs include (depending on what drug) weight gain, diabetes, cardiovascular difficulties, sexual dysfunction, violence, suicide and many more others.

PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS CAN CAUSE DEPENDENCY.  Most people have a terrible time getting off of psychiatric drugs because of the withdrawal symptoms, where your original symptoms come back much worse than you had them before. Some have major side effects such as "brain zaps" in the case of Paxil.

MOST MENTAL PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY AN UNDERLYING PHYSICAL ILLNESS.  See your doctor and get a full battery of tests to find out if you are suffering from an undiagnosed physical illness that can actually be tested for (psychiatric disorders can't be).  This could be as simple as a poor diet, anemia, allergies and so on. 

On top of this, if you let an underlying illness go on too long without addressing it, you could significantly exacerbate that condition.  Find out if you have such an illness and handle it now.  True medical illnesses can be tested for and found to exist by lab test, blood work, etc.

EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN UNDERLYING PHYSICAL ILLNESS, THERE ARE VERY GOOD NONDRUG OPTIONS.  Psych drugs are simply not an option, no matter what people say. 

Unfortunately, we live in a world informed almost exclusively by drug commercials and corrupt medical organizations massively funded (and ultimately bought off) by Big Pharma, where only pro-drug apologists live. 

You're far better off seeing an alternative health care practitioner, finding the root of your problem, and working out a solution. 

Please don't take psychotropic drugs.   I have seen too many horror stories of people on these meds than I care to enumerate.

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